Q: What was your career trajectory in the film and TV industry?
A: I was lucky enough to realise I wanted to work behind the scenes in film & TV at only 13 years of age, after a failed audition left me keen to decide the fate of others rather than be decided about.
During school and university, I built up a CV of experience working in theatre production and short films. After graduating I moved into music videos, and then feature films. From there I worked my way up the production department, working across features films of different scales, TV drama, comedy and also some drama-documentaries, eventually to Line Producer.
After 17 years of freelancing I moved to Sky, working across their original drama and comedies. It was there that I was able to have more nuanced discussions around diversity, equity and inclusion, and became the representative for this within the wider entertainment teams, which was very rewarding. Then with Amazon starting their first wave of EU originals, I was fortunate to move there to work across 5 countries including the UK and help to set up their studio processes in Europe and work on some exciting new titles.
The desire to work for a production company where I could really invest and be closer to the projects led me to Pulse in 2020. I am delighted to be their Head of Production for the Scripted Division, as it is such an ambitious and distinctive company.
Q: As PGGB’s first female chair, what’s your vision?
A: My vision for PGGB is, at its heart, to provide its members with career advancement support that continues to be relevant, meaningful and progressive.
This includes having international recognition, providing bespoke training, networking and advancement of our key groups: Nation & Region Hubs, Sustainability Committee and of course the Diversity & Inclusion Action Group.
It’s essential that with the expansion of the industry in the UK and the huge inward investment we attract (albeit with the turbulence of recent times), that we serve our freelancers and services that cover nations and regions outside the M25. Although to be honest, this has been needed for a long time. With an underlying aim to help sustain and maximise our capacity in the UK for producing film and TV of all scales, PGGB needs to serve and represent the best in all parts of the UK. There is tremendous talent and capacity there to nurture and spotlight.
Internationally and nationally, our availability service is a key component of our offering, which serves to bridge and introduce job opportunities that match the skills required for productions. This requires continued amplification across studios and networks.
Bespoke training is a really successful and unique aspect to our offering and this will evolve with the needs of our members, and identified skills gaps. Indeed, my vision includes an expansion of our membership base, and evolving our services to help support inclusive recruitment and the development of positive working cultures.
In the broadest sense our goal is to provide the support in order for members to be able to cultivate strong, stable and well working environments for all. I think it’s really vital that within our mission for career development is also a sense of integrity and community cultivated by the decision makers in our industry.
Q: How has the landscape changed since you started out over 20 years ago?
A: The industry was so much smaller here before the tax credit and the streamers; film was king compared with the smaller scale TV dramas that were made. I felt a wider divide in the UK between big budget studio film crews, lower budget indie film crews and the TV drama world, that is very different now. Freelancers also took much longer to get promoted and the culture was such that taking your time to learn and step up slowly was really respected. Part of that was simply because there was less work around so there was a sense you had to wait your turn.
The growth of the industry in recent years has changed that. And once the tax credit was established the amount of inward investment boomed, the PACT BECTU agreement meant that working hours and structured overtime rules came into play – some of the extreme exploitation that had long been the norm when I was a freelancer was phased out.
Culture in our industry has become a greater and greater focus. And we do have more to do, but looking back at some of the ways people were treated, the closed network recruitment and the language that was used, now looks old fashioned at best and downright shocking at worst. I do think there was a resilience that came with working in the culture of earlier eras, but there was also a cost to that. I’m not nostalgic for it! I hope that culture can continue to evolve and remain a focus as something we need to collectively foster.
On a more macro level, covid, the boom and the strikes and the current resettling has meant greater expansion and contraction of the industry in shorter periods of time than we have been used to. The stability of our tax credit and the incredible talent and facilities we have in the UK promises our ultimate success, but alongside cost of living, I am concerned for the ability for those without the financial backing to withstand the periods of contraction we have seen lately. We want to welcome those from varied backgrounds including low socio-economic backgrounds into our industry, but a freelance lifestyle takes more than courage at this time.
Q: What advice would you give to young women wanting to enter the industry now?
A: Trust that you can belong, that you have the capabilities the industry needs, be confident and persevering. Persistence, people skills and passionate commitment pays off. Do your research! I do believe that what those lack in contacts and existing resource can be countered by someone’s pro-active research to understand as best they can how the industry works, what the language is, who hires what roles and how to expand their network and opportunities. Figure out which department you want to work in most as soon as possible (you can always change your mind later!) – pick a lane – and demonstrate your passion by figuring out what the career path is. Don’t expect to send your CV to a few places and get a result, spread the net wide and keep track of when the industry is expanding and contracting to give yourself some perspective. Join newsletters and online groups to stay in the know.
Q: What qualities and skills do women need to become successful leaders in film and TV?
A: It’s really important to develop self-belief. Practice at voicing and trusting perspective and growing in confidence to be able to take on responsibility with maturity and resilience, I believe is central to being a successful leader.
It’s a super-power for many women to be able to listen well and think of the collective. This should be leveraged to develop leadership skills that are based on integrity, empathy and collaboration.
It took me a long time to find a voice and believe I could be taken seriously. Trust that limiting beliefs can dissolve, and that those leaders we admire no doubt have their own human insecurities, their own versions of imposter syndrome and a journey to get them to where they are. I have always found it reassuring and relatable to discover even the most steely and successful experience self-doubt and vulnerabilities.
What sets them apart is presumably the ability to put that aside and still persevere, focus more on others and the goals at large, than their own perceived limitations.
Finding mentors who can help identify which leadership qualities might be best focussed on will surely help many to develop. I believe ultimately every leader has their own style, but in our industry communication skills and the ability to work with many different people, whilst staying focussed on the mission, is essential to succeed.
Q: Who were your female role models?
A: I have worked with so many brilliant women I hope it’s not reductive to name only a few! I’m not sure I think of them as role models per se; I think we all have to find our own style of leadership. But they have each inspired my utmost respect.
I was lucky enough to have a mentor in Aida Young, dubbed the UK’s first female line producer. I was a university student and she was in her twilight years, but her so freely sharing her wisdom was truly inspiring. From her I began to learn the importance of looking after all crew, all departments, and understanding their jobs.
Jacqui Glanville, now Head of Production at Dancing Ledge, was a wonderful line producer when I worked with her. She demonstrated integrity and care for others before all else, commanding respect without ever losing her poise.
From my time at Amazon I am most grateful to have had the opportunity to work with Georgia Brown. Fiercely intelligent and directional, she embodied a strong, female leader who was creative and business minded in equal measure, fully committed and so respectful of others. Georgie showed me how to prioritise in challenging times, empowered me to have a voice, always making me feel respected in my role, and had the admirable ability to keep the central mission in perspective.
And it is only right to mention two women I am working with currently who inspire me every day. Judy Counihan, Creative Director for the Scripted Division at Pulse Films and Lyndsay Duthie, CEO of PGGB. They bring me a sense of camaraderie (dare I say: sisterhood), which feels productive and exciting. I am lucky to be working with these brilliant women who hold the highest values, and are true visionaries, utterly passionate about what they do.
Q: Why is PGGB’s work on diversity and inclusion so important?
A: Our membership comprises key decision makers whom I believe have the ability to collectively make a significant impact on the way scripted UK productions recruit and nurture talent inclusively.
I believe most people in those positions have the highest of intentions, but we have to support them to be able to transform that into positive, practical action to make a difference. I have long held the belief that in order to make a change in this area we need to inspire action from all levels of the industry – agents, studios, broadcasters, producers, HODs combined. PGGB is well placed to help amplify the incredible work out there from individuals and organisations championing inclusion, such as via our Talent Showcase Awards, and the Open Source directory, to help members be equipped to weave these principles into their work.
Q: How would you like to see the landscape change for the better for women and under-represented groups in the next 5 years?
A: Fundamentally, I believe our workforce should reflect our society. I think it makes for a better industry, one that has breadth of vision and relevant storytelling, collaborative perspectives and integrity. So if we get better at identifying barriers to this, and collectively hold ourselves accountable to introduce and elevate a workforce built on both merit and equal opportunity, we should find our leaders become more representative. I hope that in 5 years we can spend less time trying to break down barriers and more time celebrating the benefits of equity, diversity and inclusion.
